don’t capitalize every word. if you do, a capitalized word loses all meaning

also, you really should avoid rhyming in poetry unless you have a concrete meter, otherwise it just seems like you’re lengthening your lines just to get a rhyme in because you think that’s what makes it a “poem”

really the fairly amateur mistakes make the whole “passing the writing torch” thing ring pretty false

This reads almost like a rap, it has such an amazing rhythm to it. The capitalized letters give it a distinct beat while reading, very nicely done!

yeah. I realize you’re trying to paint the sort of picture other writers can relate to, but as poetry goes, this could really use some tightening

not trying to be a jerk, just

how would you honestly feel if, while watching someone write, they began to laugh and smile with glee? the rhymes seemed sorta…forced

OK First Things First:
@Skull Man
I have a habit of capitalizing every word when I write poems, I know its not always good. Also, the ending word of the first two lines in every stanza rhymes…I thought that meter was pretty ‘concrete’ as you put it. I don’t know, however you see it. Also, I am an amateur writer, I’m only in high school so I write as an opportunity to improve myself. Expect amateur mistakes.

@ Saint Chuck
YAY! That’s exactly the way its supposed to be taken!

@Jermaine
I actually do laugh and smile with glee while I write occasionally, I don’t know how other people take that. Its possible some of the rhymes seemed forced, but in truth I didn’t think about them at all, this entire poem just popped into my head whole.

what you’re talking about is a rhyme scheme, not a meter

a meter requires more consistency in syllable count from at least line to line, if not stanza to stanza

your reaction will probably be that this was a more “free verse” kind of poem but by locking yourself into a rhyme scheme you open up the comparison to more structured poetry

really your mistake here is by not choosing free-form or structured, you end up with an amalgam that doesn’t do justice to either

@Skull Man
You Know What I Say? Feh.
Its written and I’m done and that’s it. I’m tired, I Shouldn’t be writing when I’m tired.

so in your bio when you say “COMMENT PLEASE!” what you actually mean is “please don’t offer any real criticism, ignore all of the mechanics of my stories and tell me I’m a brilliant prodigy because that’s what I’m used to hearing from my mom and my friends”

gotcha

OK, WHATever. If you want to be that way go ahead. I don’t have to stand for your rudeness. I never did anything to you.

This is absolutely wonderful, and Skull Man needs to stop taking out his anger at being banned from Penny Arcade on the nice people here at Ficly. It’s sort of an anthem, and I laugh and smile while I write.

Skull enthusiast was banned, not Skull Man

and honestly, Lone Writer is having a pretty adverse reaction to what was originally constructive criticism

saying “feh” is not going to help you improve in the long run, and neither will striking out with belligerence the second someone suggests your writing may not be perfect

You’re thinking of Skull Enthusiast, a joke account created entirely to hassle me and others. That wasn’t me.

I’m not “angry,” and I’m not “taking anything out” on anyone. My criticism was apt, and what bothered me was that lone writer is begging for comments on a writing site and then gets her feelings hurt at legitimate crticism. I thought this was a place for writers to practice and hone their craft. If no one points out your mistakes you’re never going to get any better, because you’re obviously blind to them yourself.

we do have to remember that we’re not all professionals here. Ficly is a forum for writer to get their creative juices going.

Some are just getting their feet wet in writing, and so to say that some may make some amateur mistakes??? Well .. we’re all amateurs… So the statement is redundant and overly critical, all the while not being at all constructive.

Personally, I’d rather point out the good parts, while encouraging to change small things first – as i expect people will do with me when my story sucks (and some of mine have sucked!)

But as far as the poem goes:
Poems are subjective. and I don’t like to get all technical when it comes to poetry, personally. I like to feel poetry, and i thought the words here were heartfelt.

And ‘Feh’ Is NOT an adverse reaction. Its me saying I’ve written this story and that’s the way it is, and I acknowledge your opinion.
MY ADVERSE REACTION IS TO YOUR THIRD COMMENT!
You people should try to be gentle with kids, God! Honestly If this was completely awful you would have given me a ONE. Did I do nothing well? This is my only point here!

I didn’t give you a one because I didn’t want to hurt your feelings. Gentle with kids? Do you want to be a writer, or not? You say in your poem that it’s harder than it looks—did you mean that sincerely, or do you just want to further pat yourself on the back? “Yeah, I’m a writing prodigy, and it’s SUPER HARD but I make it look MEGA EASY ^_”

To answer your question, no. You didn’t do anything well in this poem. I gave you a two because you’re a sophomore in high school and I didn’t want to hurt your feelings. Until you can look at your writing as something seperate from yourself and thus not take everything anyone says as a personal attack, you will never improve.

If it makes you feel any better its only you I’ve ever had an adverse reaction to. Slang Skald doesn’t count, because I think he was being Genuine and it was 3:00 in the morning and I was incoherent.
However, I never said this poem was about me, notice how its in second person. You’re not being encouraging, your just being rude, genuine criticism or not. I’m not upset about your criticism, just at you.

Skull Man, you’re welcome to have your opinion and share it, but you could do a better job of expressing it. And when someone takes offense, it’s usually not productive to compound the problem by continuing with the same argument or tone of voice.

Can’t we all play nice?

I do try Kevin, I do try.

I’m not enough of a poet to really judge, but your meter is not consistent. If you did intend it more as a rap, then it’s not as much of an issue as they’ll often fudge the meter to get the words and phrasing out that they want to use.

The sentiment behind the poem is cool though, so I give you props for that.

Why is everyone rating their replies?

Kevin is there anyway to get the rating reset on this poem. Every comment whether it was about the poem or not is rated low, screwing up the average.

Seems rather harsh.

And for my money, I see nothing wrong with this poem.

Well done, Lone Writer.

And nevermind, I figured out the rating vs comment thing after I posted.

Hey, let’s not go hating on each other. I feel that the only time someone might have the “right” to flame someone is if that person can top the flamed piece. And I mean really top it. But as we’re all human (I should think), and we’re all practicing (repeat, practicing), I don’t think many of us have that right. Someone wants to shoot something down? “Then let’s hear the song you wrote.”

Personally I liked this. Like Alro said, a poem’s worth is subjective. The apparent lack of meter, long lines, and unorthodox formatting didn’t bother me. Not all rhymed poetry has to have rhythmical structure, and not all poetry must have short lines; just take a gander at the poems of Ogden Nash.
and the odd capitalization? well, somebody has to make up for all the capitals e.e. cummings didn’t use, i should think.

Again, ficly’s for practice, and not just in writing, but in criticism as well. Let’s just not reach for that metaphorical flame thrower, alright?

Look, I pointed out what was wrong with the poem, in a completely emotionless tone. I’m sorry I didn’t anticipate how much that would hurt your feelings, but what’s the point of “practicing” if you think you’re right every single time?

It’s like she’s shooting baskets and missing the backboard entirely and you guys are on the sidelines explaining that hitting the backboard is just going to make the ball run out of air faster.

The point of practice is to identify your faults and eleminate them. You don’t see any faults in what you did, and all of you seem to have a pretty loose definition of “poetry”. Just because it’s less restrictive doesn’t mean you can’t do it badly.

If I may, Skull Man, what would you say your definition of “poetry” is?
(No, “definitely not this,” or any variation thereof, does not count as an answer.)

Not even taking into consideration the content of the poem, there are some problems here. The capitalization is downright painful, and I almost didn’t read this because of it. I know, sure, artistic license or whatever, I’ll accept that, but if it’s making it difficult for people to get past, you may have to compromise some things.

On top of that, the inconsistent meter throws me way the hell off. On top of that, I wanted the last line of each stanza to do something so badly. The first two ended in the same word and I got excited, but no, there was no repetitive nature beyond that.

As for content, eh, it’s standard tripe that could serve to be better. But you’re a sophomore in high school, you haven’t heard every single “future writer” you know write this poem yet, so I’ll excuse that for now.

I have to say that that in addition to practicing writing and practicing giving criticism one should also practice receiving criticism. I welcome harsh critiques of my own work because it helps me as a writer. if you only say positive things, then you don’t grow, and as writers, we should all accept that as fact.
we can’t dismiss criticisms as invalid because we do not like them, unless we want to stay the same. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’d rather grow and become more than what I am at this point in my writing life, and that includes hearing things I don’t want to hears far as actual criticism for the piece goes, I would have to agree with skull man on all fronts. I have nothing to say that he didn’t say first and better.
You’ve got drive, but you need to have a better attitude about taking harsher criticism.

What I meant to say is, you’ve got drive and that’s good, and you’ve got some underlying talent, but you’ve also got a lot of problems that need working on, and you should recognize and work on them.

That’s the kind of criticism we need: frank, but not overly harsh.

@G2
Poetry is difficult to define. However, I’d say that in this context poetry is a writing style that uses primarily feeling and imagery to convey the deeper emotions of the writer. Everything else is secondary. From this viewpoint, it would seem that any poem that conveys emotion is a “good” poem and thus unassailable. However, there are styles, generational in their longevity, to which most poets adhere. The sonnet, the epic, even the limmerick. One that has come into vogue more in the last century has is the “freeverse” poem. Unfortunately, and I say this with the greatest kindness possible, this is used more as a dumping ground for bad poetry. But, haven’t we established that “bad” poetry is impossible? Quite the opposite. Bad poetry, from a stylistic viewpoint, is poetry that does not adhere well to its chosen form out of ineptitude instead of as an artistic statement. The form here is obviously a metered rhyme. It does a poor job adhering. No statement is being made. Thus it is a bad poem.

also dear person who was dissin on my boy e e
cut that shit out

Well I think its an awesome poem and bad poem is an opinion Skull Man and you project it like your opinion is fact. well guess what Skull Man there is no I in the NORM. If she doesnt want to follow your obnoxious comment then dont make her and AdorableBlanket I should point out everything wrong with what you write and point it out shouldn’t I. Also we don’t SWEAR on the comments, there is young kids on here! You should form your own opinion instead of going along with your friend too.

Yes, you should point out everything wrong that he writes. He is on this site for that. If he disagrees with me, let him do so, but I believe I know him well enough to discern that for myself.

Also, I have yet to read your stories yet blusparrow, but try to work on your grammar a bit. There are impressionable minds here, they might copy your mistakes.

I wish I’d built a way to close comment threads. Everyone to their corners, please.

@bluesparrow
yeah you should point out whats wrong with what I write, because as a writer I want to correct myself

I must agree with what has been said regarding the spurious quality of this poem, both in content and in form and technique.

Skull Man may have seemed mean or harsh (though he seemed downright clinical to me) but even if he was, better that you get used to that now, because you’ll only run into worse in the future. The publishing industry can be a rather brutal business, and some people will not stop at saying your story is bad.

If you create a way to close comment threads, can you create a way to start them? I could use that on my stuff.

There should be more honest criticism on this website, frankly.

Yes, the meter is a problem. You need to learn about iambs, dactyls and so forth. The rhyme scheme is consistent, but jarring. The capitalization subtracts from the story.

Yes, Skull Man should be more tactful. But in order to get better, you need to learn to take criticism more maturely. You say you write to better yourself – unless you learn to take what you learn from criticism and apply it to your work, you’re not going to improve, and your work is going to stay at this quality.

Yes, a lot of good poetry doesn’t conform to rhyme scheme or meter. However, the way to do that is to learn the rules and then break them, and reading this it’s clear you haven’t learned the rules. T.S. Eliot didn’t just go “hell, I just don’t feel like rhyming” – his work was a careful response to centuries of poets and the preconceptions of the period.

Learn the rules. Learn about meter. Then, if you want to, you can start to test the limits of the norm.

Being young or inexperienced isn’t an excuse for people to pull punches. Don’t make excuses to pacify us, get better and wow us.

Writing is creative, yes, but there are rules to follow and conventions to adhere to. Learn them.

SlangSkald: I agree with alot of what you said…
But telling someone they are wrong is never constructive!
Poetry is NEVER WRONG! ever.. i don’t care who you are… what your status is.. what level your education is; or your prowess with a rhyme or prose…
Poetry is a form of expression. It’s not always perfect. and it doesn’t have to be!
I know.. I write music. I write lyrics and not everyone thinks it’s good. That’s why some people like Sinatra, and others like Iron Maiden.
If it evokes emotion.. poetry works.. and Lone Writer, here has evoke A TON of it.. and she should be proud!

Throughout this entire thread of comments, we’ve been ‘Critiquing" Skull Man’s method of criticism.and so i offer this…

Instead of pointing out JUST THE BAD… point out the GOOD FIRST! .. if you can’t.. don’t comment .. criticism is no good to anyone unless it’s constructive. Some of us can do that… some of you cannot.. and that’s ok too! just learn to know when you’re NOT helping.

and YaYa: I’ve learned in Writing music: Following rules stifles creativity.. why write with boundaries??

I don’t understand this debate at all!
it all saddens me a little.

next story you make Lone Writer should be PPV..! I appreciate all types of comments. Come holla at me..!

Okay, just wanted to say:

I definitely liked the message behind the poem. And, don’t kill me LW, but I have to say that I like SlangSkald’s comment. Completely neutral criticism. I especially liked the comment about learning the rules before breaking them.

Now I just wish I knew all those rules of poetry… :P

agreein’ with skullsy and the such

I think the kernel of the idea here isn’t bad, Lone Writer. It’s hard to take criticism as something other than a personal attack, sometimes, especially when you yourself have admitted that you’re just starting out as a writer. But I find that no matter how happy you are with a piece, learning how other people interpret it and where they feel it is flawed can only improve your work. No matter what we tell ourselves, ultimately writing (with a goal toward publishing, not diary entries, obviously) is about creating a shared experience and making a connection with your readers. It pays to consider why that connection fails, when it does, and to consider how you can strengthen it.

Don’t allow harshness to fluster you; instead, take something from it – keep what you know to be your weak points in mind when you revise, and cheer yourself up via friends if you absolutely must. We’ve all been there at some point. A lot of your commentary is constructive; don’t let the tone of its phrasing put you off.

ALRO613:
Constructive criticism doesn’t mean pointing out the good. It means showing your flaws and giving you examples of how to fix them.

As for the rules of poetry;
They exist. You must know them in order to break them. You have to have that foundation of knowledge in order to understand what why and how you’re breaking the rules.

Rhyming poems are about structure and meter as much as actual content; if you want a form of poetry that doesn’t need to be critiqued for this, use free form.

Music and lyrics are the same thing. If you don’t follow basic rules in writing either, you end up with something that sounds awful. You can deviate from the rules, but outright breaking them is foolish, and most musicians will tell you that.
I apologize if anything I wrote offended anyone; I tried to be as constructive as possible while still giving the criticism that needs to be given.
Only saying good things about something is even more damaging than only saying negative things.

Dear Sir, that is the biggest piece of tosh I have read in some years. You would be better suited to changing tires. Good day!

Personally, I enjoyed it. My opinion, if I may interject it, when it comes to poetry is this: If you don’t like it, it’s not to your taste. That doesn’t necessarily make it bad. Art, be it poetry, painting, music, whatever, is highly subjective.

Also:
“I have a habit of capitalizing every word when I write poems, I know its not always good.”

Like e e cummings writing his poetry all lowercase, it’s your style, which makes it neither good nor bad, but simply you. :-)

ALRO:
First of all, poetry may not be able to be “wrong” in the same sense that math can, but it can be “bad.” This is bad poetry.

Understand why I say that before everyone jumps on me. I say that not with the intention of hurting someone. I say it so that you can understand. If I said “this is good poetry with a few problems,” I would be lying. I would be misleading you to think that this is, for the most part, well-constructed verse. By telling you this is good and then going into criticisms, I would be saying “this is good…there are some small things, but they don’t affect the overall quality of the work.”

That is not the case. The problems majorly affect the quality of the work; they make it bad. This poetry doesn’t need a little work; it needs a lot of work.

Alro, if you think you don’t need to follow rules in writing music, you are wrong. You don’t believe in adhering to measures? Beats? Even learning how to play instruments?

Poetry is not entirely subjective. There is structure.

I’m not going to coat my criticisms in pointless observations such as “oh, I really liked this one word you used.” My goal is not to increase your self-esteem; my goal is not to lower your self-esteem. My goal is to make you a better writer. I act with only this interest in mind by leaving comments.

As I always say writing is an art, and can only be judge by who writes it. I found to be having a headache after reading it with the caps, but that is your style and your way of expressing what is to be written. I just found this piece of writing to be not in my taste, but we can’t have all winners. Keep writing on writing, and take the bad with a grain of salt. Only the greats will fall, and raise with a iron fist. Just my thoughts, I may be crazy and bin eating to much fruit loops.

This has potential. Just throw in a few couplets about Batman and maybe a heptet dedicated to the boy-wonder Robin and you got yourself a piece of poetry!

Oh man, am I going to open myself up for criticism here?

While reading the comments for this I got a little…ummm…irritated. This is a great site, and I LOVE the fact that someone can say whatever they want, as I might be able to learn well. Likewise, if I don’t like what they say I can either ignore it or contact the person to discuss it, complaining in a message list will do nothing for anyone’s confidence or honesty (that’s on both sides of the argument).

Kevin, I have a feeling that this might be what you were referring to in your general post yesterday. Is there any chance that the writer might be able to disable comments or ratings on any piece of writing he chooses? This may be a good way to overcome this, especially with younger writers.

“First of all, poetry may not be able to be “wrong” in the same sense that math can, but it can be “bad.” This is bad poetry.”

Poetic forms are very much like overlaying mathematics onto language. Kind of. Maybe.

Sometimes

As many people have already said, breaking rules is fine (and to be encouraged) but one should always know which rules are being broken. When I read poetry, every deviation from the norm catches my eye because I give the writer credit and think, “A-ha! Why has he/she done this?”

If a poem is nothing but deviations from a norm the poet seems unaware of, it has much less impact for me.

Poetry is form over content, I feel.

To all budding poets, read this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ode-Less-Travelled-Unlocking-Within/dp/009179661X

It’s a grand book, very readable, full of exercises, and it’ll make you a better writer. And it will improve your appreciation of what poetry can do, even within all those glorious limits.

If you haven’t read the latest blog post about community standards, please do. There is a place here for honest thoughtful criticism, but not without humanity, and not without an understanding that there is another human being behind the story. All criticism can be tempered, and jumping in to someone else’s work and laying your special brand of critique when you don’t know them, or frankly, the culture of the site you’ve just joined, could be seen as an attack – as it was here. It may all be a misunderstanding, but the sign of true maturity is working to resolve misunderstanding – not compounding it with yet more of the very thing that caused the misunderstanding in the first place.

Is that clear? Does it make sense?

SlangSkald: I actually see your point ! and I stand corrected…
yes we have to follow rules of music – however, i like to bend them a little when creating something – but yes.. you can put a G chord in a song when the song is Eb, it just sounds wrong!

So your point is well taken!
AdorableBlanket…: I think you misunderstood what I said..
When giving contructive criticism, I like to focus on the good stuff first; telling the author what I felt went right with the story….
Then get into some of the things they can do better AFTER that…

Hey! Hey! Hey!
Everyone just stop! I’ve just noticed we’re all being overly ridiculous here! Let’s just agree to disagree and leave each other alone!

Feel free to comment on my stuff in the future everyone, I really need to act my age, and I apologize for starting all of this ranting.

I really like this. its exactly how I feel when we write poetry in english class.

It’s a great rap ( I read the comments and then “rapped” it to myself).. But I’m not sure which hardcore rap artist you could get to sing it in his next music video.. It just doesn’t seem to go with the whole sex, drugs, guns, violence, gangs, etc. type of thing rappers normally like.

Also I give props to anyone who can rhyme this many words together, make it make relative sense, and make it into a rap too.

Skull Man I think you’re definition of poetry is a little, well, let’s say horrible. Especially free verse. Just because a poem doesn’t seem to have a scheme to it doesn’t mean it isn’t a poem. A poem is a way for people to write out their thoughts and emotions in a way that isn’t a structured story, for me. And I really liked the poem. I thought it was what a poem should be: she was talking about something that inspired her and how other people viewed it. While your criticism may be valid in part, the capitalization was a little much for me (emphasis on little), I thought the way you staged it and the way you kept going wasn’t effective. There. I’m done.

Wait, good job, Lone Writer.

Okay, now I’m done.

oh uhhh just because she read ur comment doesnt mean she has to follow it. ive missed you lone writer! i like the capitalizations, i think they are cool. and yes rhyming does make it concrete. this is a very good poem, we writers rule =D

COOOOOOL!